lisp.org

[Nick Levine]

Now that we've established why lisp.org and its friends are long-term off air...

The website at lisp.org contained a photo of John McCarthy (and nothing else) since the week he died six years ago. What's the message?

In contrast take a quick look at (say) python.org, a site devoted to really assisting people to use that language.

Do we care, and if we do how do we go about effecting change?

- nick

[Clint Moore]

I care, and am my company is willing to spend time and money to keep it and
the ALU content on the air, so to speak. Frankly, it would be an honor.

I get that no one of note knows me and almost certainly no one knows of my
company, so it'd be a stretch to trust me with anything, but the offer is
there.

Post by Nick Levine
Now that we've established why lisp.org and its friends are long-term off air...
The website at lisp.org contained a photo of John McCarthy (and nothing
else) since the week he died six years ago. What's the message?
In contrast take a quick look at (say) python.org, a site devoted to
really assisting people to use that language.
Do we care, and if we do how do we go about effecting change?
- nick

[Nick Levine]

Clint,

Thanks for the offer. Let's talk offline about practical details.

More generally: I have a strong belief that alu.org if it continues to exist should be a site about the ALU (organises conferences, "etc" whatever that means) and that lisp.org should be a -- new -- site about Lisp, as in python.org. Ah, but there are several lisps, none quite the same. So would we have common.lisp.org etc (or equivalent naming schemes, I don't care)? Or would we say that racket and scheme and emacs lisp and so on already have functioning websites and it's just the Common Lisp community that's never got its act together? Or what?

- nick

I care, and am my company is willing to spend time and money to keep it and the ALU content on the air, so to speak. Frankly, it would be an honor.
I get that no one of note knows me and almost certainly no one knows of my company, so it'd be a stretch to trust me with anything, but the offer is there.

Post by Nick Levine
Now that we've established why lisp.org and its friends are long-term off air...
The website at lisp.org contained a photo of John McCarthy (and nothing else) since the week he died six years ago. What's the message?
In contrast take a quick look at (say) python.org, a site devoted to really assisting people to use that language.
Do we care, and if we do how do we go about effecting change?
- nick

[Daniel Kochmański]

Hey,

for your information, there is such website (featuring Common Lisp)
created by third-party developer Fernando Borretti. It may be found
here: http://lisp-lang.org/ . Having lisp.org pointing at the same host
would be an improvement.

I think that getting in touch with him is a good idea – adding to CC.

Best regards,

Daniel

Post by Nick Levine
Clint,
Thanks for the offer. Let's talk offline about practical details.
More generally: I have a strong belief that alu.org <http://alu.org>
if it continues to exist should be a site about the ALU (organises
conferences, "etc" whatever that means) and that lisp.org
<http://lisp.org> should be a -- new -- site about Lisp, as in
python.org <http://python.org>. Ah, but there are several lisps, none
quite the same. So would we have common.lisp.org
<http://common.lisp.org> etc (or equivalent naming schemes, I don't
care)? Or would we say that racket and scheme and emacs lisp and so on
already have functioning websites and it's just the Common Lisp
community that's never got its act together? Or what?
- nick

Post by Clint Moore
I care, and am my company is willing to spend time and money to keep
it and the ALU content on the air, so to speak.  Frankly, it would be
an honor.
I get that no one of note knows me and almost certainly no one knows
of my company, so it'd be a stretch to trust me with anything, but
the offer is there.
Now that we've established why lisp.org <http://lisp.org> and its
friends are long-term off air...
The website at lisp.org <http://lisp.org> contained a photo of
John McCarthy (and nothing else) since the week he died six years
ago. What's the message?
In contrast take a quick look at (say) python.org
<http://python.org>, a site devoted to really assisting people to
use that language.
Do we care, and if we do how do we go about effecting change?
- nick

[zbyszek]

Post by Daniel Kochmański
Hey,
for your information, there is such website (featuring Common Lisp)
created by third-party developer Fernando Borretti. It may be found
here: http://lisp-lang.org/ . Having lisp.org pointing at the same
host would be an improvement.

It is very nice looking page, but it has very little content.
Wiki part is a only a small subset of what is available on
http://cliki.net, other parts do not show much activity.

Does the author(s) actively maintains it, or has he suffered from less
interesting outside Lisp occupations ;-)?

Original ALU website contained a lot of documentation material:
tutorials, articles etc. Would it be possible to move it there?

Sorry for responding after a month, but I too suffer from overwork
outside of my favorite subjects.

Best regards,

Zbyszek Jurkiewicz

[Fernando Borretti]

Hi,

The wiki is mostly empty because I foolishly expected people would be
motivated to contribute articles to a newer, more complete, better-looking
website. As for other content, there's a style guide
<http://lisp-lang.org/style-guide/>, a collection of Lisp success stories
<http://lisp-lang.org/success/>, Lisp books <http://lisp-lang.org/books/>,
and a tutorial page <http://lisp-lang.org/learn/getting-started/>. However,
that last one appears to be broken now -- I'll have to look into the build
to see what's up.

Having lisp.org point to lisp-lang.org would be nice. Though I think
focusing on the plumbing is more important than the façade: having more
content, especially for the wiki, is more important than a shorter domain.

Cordially,
Fernando Borretti

Post by zbyszek

Post by Daniel Kochmański
Hey,
for your information, there is such website (featuring Common Lisp)
created by third-party developer Fernando Borretti. It may be found
here: http://lisp-lang.org/ . Having lisp.org pointing at the same
host would be an improvement.

It is very nice looking page, but it has very little content.
Wiki part is a only a small subset of what is available on
http://cliki.net, other parts do not show much activity.
Does the author(s) actively maintains it, or has he suffered from less
interesting outside Lisp occupations ;-)?
tutorials, articles etc. Would it be possible to move it there?
Sorry for responding after a month, but I too suffer from overwork
outside of my favorite subjects.
Best regards,
Zbyszek Jurkiewicz

[Sam Steingold]

Once upon a time, lisp.org hosted CLHS as http://www.lisp.org/HyperSpec
and MOP as http://www.lisp.org/mop.
CLHS is now at http://clhs.lisp.se/ and
mop at http://mop.lisp.se/www.alu.org/mop/.
(yes, there are other locations -
http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/html/hyperspec/HyperSpec/
http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/
but the "lisp.org" URLs have a certain "vendor-independence" and
"permanence" - yeah, right - flavor).

It would be nice if lisp-lang.org hosted CLHS and MOP.

Thanks.

--
Sam Steingold (http://sds.podval.org/) on darwin Ns 10.3.1504
http://steingoldpsychology.com http://www.childpsy.net http://think-israel.org
http://iris.org.il http://americancensorship.org http://no2bds.org
Marriage is the sole cause of divorce.

[Daniel Herring]

Hi all,

Nick is pointing to a big elephant in the room.

Post by Nick Levine
The website at lisp.org contained a photo of John McCarthy (and nothing else) since the week he died six years ago. What's the message?
In contrast take a quick look at (say) python.org, a site devoted to really assisting people to use that language.
Do we care, and if we do how do we go about effecting change?

For years, there was talk of developing lisp.org to become a friendly
portal for all Lisp dialects. The basic idea was to structure the site in
a useful way for a few key groups, roughly young beginners, seasoned
developers, and managers.

Students and young developers would get directed towards educational
programs and their associated ecosystems. More advanced developers would
get guidance on how to choose the right dialect and implementation for
their focus, pointers to educational resources, pointers to support
groups, a jobs forum, etc. Managers would get business success stories,
explanations of the value proposition of Lisp, professional contacts, etc.
A generic section would also cover topics like "what features are common
in Lisp languages?" (NOT "what is a Lisp?"), present common history like
the Lisp family tree, have directories of websites, books, and journals,
etc.

There were multiple false starts at accomplishing this. Tim Daly had a
friend build one prototype. He presented many good ideas but there were
some strong points of contention. After this, I tried addressing those
issues, circulating a site outline, and there was talk of how we might
contributors from the various dialects. etc.

Two key challenges: (1) Assemble a community around lisp.org (not
common-lisp.net or schemers.org or racket-lang.org or clojure.org or ...).
(2) Find someone with the experience and energy to make this happen.

Funding was not the issue. Server technology was a distracting issue.


- Daniel

[Anton Vodonosov]